Season 1, Episode 9: Self Compassion and Parenting
Even the hardest working parents with the best intentions make mistakes sometimes. As humans, making mistakes is inevitable, but it’s important to give ourselves compassion when we mess up. Having self-compassion can improve your mental health and the relationships you have with your children.
On this episode of Living Fully, host Katherine Hurtig talks with registered social worker, Denis Sushkin, about the concept of self-compassion and parenting. They discuss the benefits of having compassion and kindness for yourself and how it can affect your children. They also explain the different techniques you can use to practice self-compassion and how to model the behaviour for your kids.
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Katherine Hurtig
Welcome to Living Fully a Calgary Counselling Centre podcast. Each episode we’ll bring you insights from our expert counsellors and tips and strategies to improve your mental well-being. I'm your host, Katherine Hurtig.
Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta provide effective counselling for anyone in Alberta with no wait list and no financial barriers. Find us online at calgarycounselling.com or counsellingalberta.com.
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Even the hardest working parent with the best of intentions makes mistakes sometimes. In this episode, I talked with Denis Suskin, registered social worker about the concept of self-compassion and how it can improve the mental health of parents and benefit the relationships with their children.
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Parenting isn't easy. We want to do our best in raising our kids, but mistakes are inevitable. There's going to be times that we don't get it right. We'll raise our voices or say the wrong thing. Miss watching one of their games, or maybe accidentally embarrass them in front of their friends. Today we're going to talk about the concept of self-compassion, and if we apply it to our lives and parenting style, it can help our relationships with our children and our mental health. I'm here with Denis Sushkin, a registered social worker with Calgary Counselling Centre.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah. Thank you for having me here. It's my pleasure.
Katherine Hurtig
Dennis, let's start by - if you can just introduce yourself and talk about your background and all that. That'd be great.
Denis Sushkin
I've been working with the Centre for a number of years. But counselling and therapy is my second career. I used to be a teacher before, so in my head I always see those two careers like they overlap and one is a continuation of the other.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, I spent seven years teaching. Languages and younger kids music. And also I come from a different background as well. I come from Central Asia, from Kazakhstan.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Denis Sushkin
So yeah, I have a bit of a fragmented life.
Katherine Hurtig
Did you grow up there?
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, I was born in a country that doesn't exist anymore in the Soviet Union. And then I spent a portion of my formative years in Kazakhstan.
Katherine Hurtig
When was it that you switched careers into counselling?
Denis Sushkin
So I came to Canada in 2013 and I spent some time working in social services and working with adults and families, and then 2017 is when I started my counselling journey.
Katherine Hurtig
Awesome! So, Dennis, what does self-compassion mean? Can you define it for us?
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, well, compassion towards yourself is not any different than compassion towards other people. So in general, compassion is attitude of kindness and care towards a person who is struggling or having a hard time with something, and the desire to help So sometimes it's compassion towards others. Sometimes it's self-compassion – the same attitude and desire to help, but directed at yourself.
Katherine Hurtig
And then how does that that self-kindness, the self-compassion, what role does that play in developing healthy and nurturing parenting style?
Denis Sushkin
Right. Well, I think there are two main roles that it can play in a family. First of all, we are the main tools, the main vehicle for parenting. So sometimes self-compassion is like maintenance for car. When you have a car and it means that you need to fill up the gas, you need to clean, you need to take it to mechanic from time to time. So sometimes self-compassion is just like a way to care for yourself, be able to be the best version of the parent that you want to be. And the other role that might play is modeling, because kids have an incredible ability to observe and learn and quite often learn indirectly. So when we are self-compassionate towards ourselves, that's how we can teach our kids how to be compassionate towards others and how they can compassionate and kind towards themselves too.
Katherine Hurtig
For sure. I have a stepson and so I I definitely think about some of these things and I think that's it's really important to model not just how to treat other people, but also how to treat yourself. So when your kids see that, “they make sure they're taken care of. They make sure they're doing things that they enjoy. They make sure that their needs are met.” I mean, at least I feel that that shows them that respecting yourself and taking care of yourself is really important.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, exactly. There are always two different kinds of landscape. I think that's like the teaching background. The teaching is kind of like sometimes you can just teach and explain, “that's what you need to do. That's how you do it.” And sometimes you just do something and kids pick it up and start imitating you.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, definitely.
Denis Sushkin
They start looking at what's going on. Yeah, it's definitely a big part of any kind of growth and learning.
Katherine Hurtig
How can self-compassion impact the relationship you have with your kids and the overall family dynamics?
Denis Sushkin
I think a big piece of this is this kind of self-compassion, either caring, kind attitude towards yourself and others, it can reduce shame and increase connection between people. And I think we all can think of a moment when we struggled and had a difficult time with something and there was probably a moment that anyone can bring it forward when you had someone there for you that understood you and were willing to help you. And listeners can bring this forward and just notice what effect it had on the person. And if I were to guess it … decreased the tension for yourself, you relaxed. You were not feeling so alone.
It's also affected how you interacted with others around you. And sometimes we can get this kind of attitude of care and desire to help from others and sometimes we can provide it to ourselves. And it's not just about taking care of ourselves, but it's also helps you to connect. It helps you to be there for others.
Katherine Hurtig
So we talked a little bit about modeling. How can parents model this idea of self-compassion for their kids and encourage them to develop their own self compassion?
Denis Sushkin
I think the big tool, like a huge tool that we all have is the ability to tell stories. We read stories sometimes So it might look like sometimes just doing something and kids will keep looking up. I think parents can usually tell when kids are watching. Tell a story through just action and doing things. Sometimes it might mean that you actually say those things out loud and say, “it's been a hard day and I know I'm having a hard time. I'm not as focused or attentive to what you have to say to me and I just need a moment to step back. Give me 5 minutes and I'll come back and listen,” or “I really want to hear what you have to say about your day or about the game that you just played.” Just saying it out loud helps people, helps kids to know, “oh, that’s what’s happening.” Another thing is when kids are struggling and when they don't know what's happening around them, without a concrete story, they tend to either self-doubt or self-blame. So this ability to say it out loud, “hey, I'm having a hard time, a hard day at work,” whatever - it gets those doubts and blame out of the picture for kids. They know, “Oh that's what's happening for my parents. For my dad, for my mom.” And it helps them helps them to relax. Sometimes it can be just a matter of reading stories. We read different things, like those books and we could just name and notice those moments when characters in the book are being kind towards others or helping others or just being kind towards themselves and just highlight them. “That was a neat part of the story.”
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, like that. Can you think of any examples of specific techniques or exercises or practices that parents can use to enhance their self-compassion?
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, definitely. Well, let me talk about three. Two might be a bit of a shorter term, like something that you can do on a daily basis and the third one might require some time and attention from people too. But first of all, when I think about self-compassion especially, it requires three steps to it. You need to name what's happening – “It’s been a hard day at work and I'm tired, or I'm not focused. I'm scattered,” whatever it is.
The second step is to connect, like connect with the dots. “So what’s the context that I'm in? It makes sense It's been a very hectic day at work,” for example. Connect to the context and connect to a common human experience. Saying something along the lines of like, “who wouldn’t feel tired after a day like this?” So just to normalize and cross reference and have a bigger picture in view - that's the second step that people can do.
And then the last one is to be kind. But when I think about being kind, it doesn't only mean just accepting what's going on. Because sometimes, if there's nothing else we can do, being kind sometimes means just like accepting and saying, “hey, that makes sense,” and it's kind of like “that's OK to feel what I'm feeling.” And sometimes being kind means tapping into resources or just doing something, acting on that situation that you're in. So if we go back to the example of having a hard day at work and not being able to connect with your kids – “well, right now I need just like 5 minutes or 10 minutes to have a breather,” and maybe asking someone to step in.
So you can name what's happening, connect to the bigger context and to the human experience of being a parent or doing life in general, and thinking, “what is it that they need right now?” Maybe it's just like, “hey, I just need to be kinder to myself, or maybe I do need to do something to set a boundary or take some time for myself.” So that's the first technique or strategy people can use. Name, connect, and then do something about it.
The other one, and I'm stealing this from an author and therapist, Beck Kennedy . She works with families a lot. She talks about this in the context of working with kids, but this attitude of like, “this is a good kid who's having a hard time with XYZ,” instead of thinking or saying, “what’s wrong with you? Why are you doing what you're doing?” So applying something similar to yourself. Like “I'm a good parent who's having a hard time with XY and Z. I'm a good parent who's having a hard time after a long, exhausting day at work.” And just a phrase like this can help you to get out of this shame cycle like, “oh, there's something wrong with me.” And then just like normalize…
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I think like you said, shame is a big part of it.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, and that’s the big part of it. So just this phrase, “I'm a good parent who's having a hard time,” and then just filling in the blank. What is it that you're having a hard time with? Also this will give you information on what you might need in any given moment.
Katherine Hurtig
I really like that. “I’m a good parent. I’m just having a hard time.”
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, and that can give you a bit of a distance. The third one might take some time for people. We usually think parenting means that you need to give a lot, but actually, to care for others or even care for oneself is more than just giving. I really like how Esther Perel - she's a prominent relationship expert -she usually talks that there are 7 verbs or actions that actually shape the way we love and care for others, including sometimes ourselves. So the seven verbs are to take, to give, to ask, to receive, to share, to refuse, and to play.
Katherine Hurtig
So those all show up in relationships, you're saying?
Denis Sushkin
Well, they shape the way we love and care for someone, including ourselves.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Denis Sushkin
So we need to give to others, and that's a big part of it. And I think that's what comes first when it comes to parenting.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, that's what we think of first.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, but it also like means that you need to take. Maybe to take that 5 or 10 minutes for yourself. It also means sometimes you need to ask for what you kind of help you need. If you ask for something that also means that you need to be able to receive it, because It's not always easy.
Katherine Hurtig
Of course, yeah.
Denis Sushkin
Sometimes you need to share these resources or just share what's going on for you.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, like that's another expectation around parenting is that you can handle it all yourself.
Denis Sushkin
Right. And it’s not a job for one person, or even two people, in general. And the other two verbs are to refuse, and to play. So I'll name it one more time. So to care for someone, including yourself, you need to take, to give, to ask, to receive, to share, to refuse, and to play.
And another technique or strategy that people can use is just to write those verbs down and think about what comes naturally to you. I would assume that to give will be one of the top ones, but there might be other verbs or actions that also come naturally to you. And then highlight which one of them is not that easy for you to do. And just take one verb, one action and just focus on it for a month. Going back to: “I'm a good parent who's having a hard time sometimes,” to say no to people or to refuse. And it also means that, “I can get better.” Some of those like verbs and actions require some cultivating and focusing on it. So it's not enough just to accept, “I'm having a hard time,” sometimes it also requires you to do something about it, and then you can just practice it for a month, let's say. People can even connect it to the bigger context and just like, involve your kids. “Hey, that’s a month, and we're focusing on this, and we want to be able as a family to do it well,” and it becomes a practice for the whole family.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. I like that idea of like having it written out, because seeing those, that, they're all part of taking care of yourself and others, it makes it easier to accept like, “OK, I need to refuse my child this one thing. I’m not a bad parent. It's part of caring for them.”
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, it's part of the job description in a sense.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I love that.
So this is kind of related - we talked about there is kind of a lot of shame that comes to messing up as a parent. I mean, I see it a lot in social media. I think we're all guilty of this. We put out on to social media the life that we want people to think we have. We just put out the best. So you'll see your friends and other families that look perfect, they look like they're doing everything right. So it's hard not to judge ourselves and our choices when that’s what we’re taking in. Can you provide any examples of how self-compassion can help parents overcome guilt and self-judgment and that shame?
Denis Sushkin
It's such a good question, such a big question as well. I love that - we put out like just the best things on social media. But on the on the flip side, we usually compare our behind-the-scenes shots to those best shots of other people and that can be such an overwhelming experience.
Also the nuance I want to also highlight is that there are a couple of words that we use interchangeably, but they can be confusing - guilt, shame, judgment - and I want to clarify because, when I look at those things, I see actually only two processes - the shame versus guilt - but by shame I mean, it's like feeling bad about yourself as a person. “I'm a bad person. I'm a bad partner. I'm a bad parent.” Like this kind of state. “I'm broken. There's something wrong with me.” Guilt on the other side, is feeling bad about what we did. Shame is never helpful. Guilt actually can be adaptive, and it can be like we make mistakes. I think that's totally fair. That's totally true. There's no way around it around it. I think if you're human and you're in relationships with others like you will constantly go through the cycle of harmony, disharmony, repair. There's no way around it.
Katherine Hurtig
So shame is more like all-encompassing and guilt is more like situation specific.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, situational and about something that we did, because like if there is a mistake that happened… I mean, in a way guilt is a pathway or the way to repair. If I'm interacting with my with my kid and I know I'm not attentive or as attentive as I want to be… your sometimes, like, “oh, something is not right. So it doesn't mean that I'm bad, I'm just not doing this the way it needs to. I need to do it right.” So guilt is actually adaptive and it's helpful.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. It's kind of that clue, like “OK, this is an opportunity to adjust what I'm doing.”
Denis Sushkin
Right. And it helps me versus feeling ashamed … “Something’s wrong with me. I can't be a good parent because…” Whatever it is, it's not helpful. So first of all, separating those two. Thinking, “am I more in the shame cycle or am I in the guilt?” And if guilt is appropriate, maybe doing something about it is really helpful. I just recently had a conversation with someone and they shared that a very close person to them said to them - and this is such a great way to kind of talk about not getting stuck in the same cycle - they said, “I made a lot of mistakes in my life that I still feel guilty about, but they do not define me.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. Yeah, yeah.
Denis Sushkin
If you're human, you will make mistakes.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, it's bound to happen. We're definitely not perfect.
Denis Sushkin
How do we respond to those situations, what we do, that's what helps and that's where if there's something and it's more about like, “well, maybe I can do things better, but maybe it’s just some information for me and I can learn from it. Yeah, and do something.”
Katherine Hurtig
Awesome. Denis, what do you think some potential barriers or challenges might be that parents could have when they're trying to practice self-compassion?
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, totally. It can be not an easy practice to kind of incorporate.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, especially if it's new to you, yeah.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, totally. And I'm thinking about couple of things here. So first of all, some of the social norms in how we how we grew up and what kind of messages we take from people around us, from the culture around us. So usually in any family unit, there is a primary or frontline parent. And in a typical heterosexual couple, this usually falls under the woman's domain. And these primary caregivers, they socialize to take care of others. And we’re not taught to take good care of ourselves, and this can be…, just like the context that we're coming from, if we're not taught how to… if we we didn't have parents who didn't play… for a lot of different reasons. Again, they're not to not to blame. They were not thinking, maybe they were surviving other things that are happening. Their minds were kind of just providing because that was a very different context for them. But we're not taught how to take care of ourselves and it can be can be a barrier.
Katherine Hurtig
Not taught to take care of ourselves or just not taught to put ourselves first ever
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that can be a big, big part of what makes it harder because it's something new, it feels awkward. Whenever you are learning a new skill, it's like it feels unnatural and awkward. Also it can be challenging, but also means that we're doing something right and we're doing something new.
Katherine Hurtig
Right, and growing for sure.
Denis Sushkin
Another challenge is the isolation of families or couples specifically, like couples tend to do this kind of work on their own and not have enough support and when you just have the context that you're in is challenging and there are not that many people that can help, it also makes it sometimes harder. You don't think twice about taking care of yourself, so parenting is not a job for one person, that's for sure. But it's not a job for just two people, either.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, what's that cliché? “It takes a village” or something?
Denis Sushkin
Yeah. And we do need people around us, but I propose that we change this saying, this cliche. I think it's not just takes a village, I think it takes a good village – not perfect – but a good village. Because that can be another challenge is complex family dynamics can also be a challenge. It definitely helps people like to have people around. But when the village is not functioning well, it also can hinder so many different things.
Katherine Hurtig
Yes, that will be a conversation for another day. So this is kind of along the same lines - what about cultural or societal factors that would kind of impact how we approach self-compassion?
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, yeah, definitely. When they think about culture, it can be culture, like of a nation or country. Also it can be a culture of a certain family. When I think about cultures, I tend to think like there are cultures that focus more on self-reliance, like this independence. Typically people think about North America, and there are also cultures that focus more on interdependence and loyalty with more of a community. those families, like countries that have more of a communal feel to it. And typically for people who come from a background, where their family or their culture and general focus more on loyalty and interdependence, they usually tend to have a harder time with this idea of self-compassion and I think that's kind of like, the second culture is closer to home for me. I think when people hear from those cultures, when they hear self-compassion, they actually hear something along the lines of, “this is self-indulgent and unnecessary selfish kindness to yourself,” which is not what self-compassion means, and sometimes the emphasis is more on the self-indulgent, something selfish, sometimes the emphasis is more, “this is not necessary.”
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Denis Sushkin
Another thing that shapes how we understand it and separating those two, like self-compassion doesn't mean it's something selfish. Self-compassion is a good way to take care of yourself, take care of the relationships. It's about maintenance and actually…
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, because you know when, like you said, your best version of yourself, and you're in the best place you can be, then you're better able to take care of others and be there for… and be more loyal, and whatever else. Does that makes sense?
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's nothing selfish about it. But again, like sometimes unintentionally, we grew up with those messages and then self-compassion becomes something selfish.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, whether it's at a family level or a societal level, it would definitely be difficult to break out of that mindset.
Denis, how do you think self-compassion can support parents in kind of managing and processing the many difficult emotions that are going to arise during parenting?
Denis Sushkin
I tend to think that any emotion is data, it's nothing more - the emotion is not good or bad. Our main job is to notice those emotions, name them, understand what's going on, what the reaction is. Sometimes I feel like emotions have reasons of their own. If a part of us is feeling something, it's usually a good idea to at least check in and see what's going on.
Katherine Hurtig
What reason is behind that, yeah.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, and even a check-in like this can be an act of self-compassion, like “part of me is feeling really overwhelmed,” and just connecting to the bigger context, going through the process, the steps of being kind and caring towards yourself or part of yourself that's feeling whatever you're feeling can be a big part of us moving forward, doing something about it, doing something for ourselves or being a better parent.
Katherine Hurtig
And I think what you said earlier, about one of those aspects of self-compassion, that common human experience.
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, the common humanity or the context like norm referencing.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, exactly. So kind of looking at your situation with that lens, “of course I'm feeling overwhelmed in this moment,” or “of course this situation would make me frustrated. I'm sure lots of other people would feel the same thing.”
Denis Sushkin
Yeah, it becomes a process and can become even a teaching moment for a connection moment with kids too. It’s learning and understanding what to do with those emotions is a big part of growth and development. All kids are born with this incredible ability to feel everything, but it takes us like 25 years for brains to fully develop and learn how to work with those emotions. So us working through those…
Katherine Hurtig
That's so important as parents, to help our kids work through those emotions and understand. Like you said, there's not a value associated with them. Like if kids are scared or sad or whatever, it's not wrong to feel that way.
Denis Sushkin
And it sometimes just takes being kind and understanding. Sometimes it takes some kind of clear and calm attitude… just this ability to think. Sometimes it takes some courage to face our own fears and big emotions. So our kids big emotions that can be like, “whoa, what just happened?” … whatever’s going on, “I'm a good parent. This is a good kid in front of me, and they're having a hard time.” Even when we think about our partners, we all kind of have those days when we snap, we’re more grumpy, or we do something, and it’s such a big difference when we hear “what's wrong with you?” versus like “we might be having a hard time with something. I don't know what's going on,” … so just the ability to turn towards somebody else, not with the idea of “what's wrong with you?”
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, not with judgement.
Speaker 3
Yeah, “Help me. I'm here for you, help me understand.” Something like “it's not OK how you talk to me right now, but I'm here for you. If you're having a hard time with something, let me know. And then let's see what's what we can do about it.”
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah If this concept is new to a parent, what advice would you give to them to kind of start incorporating that into their parenting?
Denis Sushkin
Well, I think 2 steps that people can take, first of all, just thinking about what's the context that you're coming from? Be it like cultural context: did you grow up with more with more messages of self-reliance? How did you take care of yourself… you need to take care of others? So knowing where you come from can be helpful because again, it gives you the context. It helps you to connect with the bigger picture.
And the other thing is using this phrase more often, this idea of “I’m having a hard time with something,” as opposed to “there’s something wrong with me or with somebody else.” Saying it to others more often, like “hey, I see you. I still see you as a as a good person, as a good child. You're having a hard time with something. Help me understand what's going on,” or just checking in with yourself. So, using this phrase more often: “I'm still a good parent who's having a hard time with…refusing, saying no, managing boundaries, managing whatever it is.” And that can be a good starting point.
Katherine Hurtig
Awesome. Thank you so much, Denis. I think this is an important topic and it can be hard for parents to have that self-compassion. So I think you've given our listeners a lot of good tips. Thank you so much.
Denis Sushkin
You’re welcome. It's been a pleasure and fun.
Katherine Hurtig
You've been listening to Living Fully, a Calgary Counselling Centre podcast. Thank you for tuning in.
This episode was produced by Luiza Campos and by me, Katherine Hurtig. A special thanks to Denis Sushkin.
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Living Fully is a production of Calgary Counselling Centre and recorded in Calgary on Treaty 7 territory.
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